His Politics

[Doul]

What do people think of China's politics? Do you think it shows in his work? How does it align with your own? Any thoughts are welcome:)

[Mort]

Umm, given you rate yourself an anarchist I am not too sure whether you're politics align too closely with those of Mr Mieville there Doul.

However, my reading is that CM is "somewhat" socialist. He reinforces this in all three books so far - being especially negative towards what he conservatism and its best friends - business and the entrepeneur. However, what impresses me is that Mieville does not seem blind to the shortcomings of his preferred political system. He sees it for what it is and although it is his espoused theory, he is ready to demonstarte its problems.

I am more of a soft-socialist I think. Not quite a hard-core as Mieville, though I believe an intrinsically socialist system is besyt as it will look after society. However, today's world appears to be movving away from this and towards a more corporatised future

[LooseCannon]

I am a staunch conservative who firmly supports capitalism. Yet Mieville's writings don't bother me. He isn't trying to push his beliefs on his readers or anything, he is just creating a world with a viable political system. If he didn't write it the way he did it wouldn't be believable.

I found the way he wrote about the New Crobuzon militia and the mayor to be rather similar to Orwell's 1984. Both governments seem to be omnipotent almost.

He makesthe New Crobuzon government out to be facists in that they have total control but they are good facists (is that possible?!) in that they look after their city and the people, even if it is for their own goals.

I can't even remember at the moment, but was there any mention of how the mayor of New Crobuzon was selected? Was there an election?

[Doul]

there is a strange election policy in NC. There is a lottery, if you win the lottery, then you may cast a vote. Isaac mentions he won the lottery once and got to vote.

[LooseCannon]

Ahh yes, that rings a bell. Did Mieville allude to the fact that the election might have been doctored?

[Doul]

sorry, can't remember

[Rudgutter]

Totally with LC on this one. I wholeheartedly support capitalism and I'm pretty conservative (although I smoke weed a fair bit. My conservative mum would kill me if she found that out. ;D). And I loathe socialism; loathe it with a passion only matched by my support of the free market.

It was because of this I almost didn't bother reading PSS. The last thing I wanted was an 800 page attack on all things Conservative masquerading as a fiction book.

But, fortunately, it wasn't like that at all. If you look hard of course you can see where Mieville's leanings lie, but the way he presents this only makes it appear more realistic to the story. For example marxist literature being printed from a slaughterhouse, or the militia ruthlessly putting down striking workers. Mieville never says, "This literature is right," or "The militia was wrong to do that." He lets you decide, and I have huge respect for him because of that.

Just to follow the 1984 link, I always saw the 1984 government as the most vile government ever imagined. I hate everything about it, from the way the government has so much control that it literally brainwashes its citizens into believing one thing while they do another, to the fact that every product has a "Victory" before it.

But compared with the government of NC, iI feel quite different. Rudgutter and his two assocaites (I forget their names) I think came across as -- here I'm hesitant to say nice -- competent people, and do seem concerned with the welfare of the city, although Rudgutter in particular goes about this in a very cold logical way. I'm not sure whether it was Mieville's intent or not, but I never saw Rudgutter or even the NC government as villains. In fact I saw Rudgutter as the type of politician I could respect. I don't know, maybe it's just me. ;D

[Doul]

I saw Montjohn Rescue, Rudgutter and Eliza as villains, mainly because of the Militia and their torture (Specially after Ben was killed). I reckon he tried to identify the government as villians through the Militia, which was most certainly written as a highly oppressive force in teh city (and this fact was strengthened in teh Scar when Bellis mentions how it feels to know the militia are closing in around you).

btw, Welcome, Rudgutter. Go to the introductions thread and introduce yourself:)

[Mort]

This might contain spoilers so you have been warned (I will try not to spell anything out).

I agree with what LC and Rudgutter have said regarding the fact that The Council is attempting to do what is right for the city. My contention is - is their definition all-encompassing or is it merely looking after their own special interest groups. I found the persona of Rudgutter quite unsettling - sure he is competent and cares for the city but this is only so that he can get more graft and, in the end, maintain himself in the manner to which he is accustomed. In particular I was repulsed by the solution of his occular problem - was as graphic a portrayal of injustice as you could imagine.

Anyway, just my two cents worth - I don't think the political push is central, it merely adds to the world that has been created by CM, especially the byzantine level and intricacy of the city and its politicos.

[LooseCannon]

I always saw the NC government as having selfish goals yet selfish goals that were nevertheless beneficial to the citizens of NC as well. In the case of the Slake Moths the government acted quickly and without a lot of the bureaucratic mess that bogs many administrations down. In this example it did benefit the citizens of NC.

So, basically, if the government's goals are beneficial to the citizens then both sides can live in peace and harmony. It is when the militia comes down out of blimps and starts killing striking workers that the injustice comes to the fore. Even though I am not a big fan of unions, especially striking unions, I must admit that was a little too iron fisted.

Also, I made the comparison to 1984 as both governments have the ubiquitous feel to them. Mieville really showed that when he first described how the militia threw down their hoods and appeared from the street crowds. Not necessarily on the principles they are based on.

[Lemuel]

im not strongly politically opinionated, and i dont think China's politics show through an awful lot in the books, at least not prominately... maybe as a background, but no more than that

[Pale]

A diverse range of opinions and politics here. For some reason i expected Chinas readership to be of a similiar outlook to himself.

I suppose it's to his credit that he can attract a varied slice of views from an intelligent following.

For my two penneth i belive his politics of social justice do poke through his prose. Especially in his portrayal of societies outcasts and the down trodden.

If you hadn't guessed i'm an old fashioned leftie myself. And vote Socialist Alliance.

[Brys]

I don't think it really shows through that much in his writing. You can guess that he's a little left wing from the books, but I was surprised when I found out that he was actually far left and strongly socialist.

I used to be more left wing, but now I'm very liberal - pretty much right in the centre of the political spectrum. Doing economics A-level more or less convinced me of the problems of socialism/communism, and that the free market is the best solution - but then I'm not conservative either, and I believe in the welfare state being necessary. So basically I'm a progressive liberal, but his views don't come across enough in his books to make reading them any worse.