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Post by TannerRRSack on Aug 30, 2003 18:04:28 GMT -5
...Of Perdido Street Station? Personally, I thought it was one of the most invocative and imaginative stories I have read. Isaac, as a hero, was an excellent choice. Full of flaws, fat and ugly (probably) and a geek.
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Post by Doul on Aug 31, 2003 3:01:08 GMT -5
fantastic, of course. The weaver, obviously, was amazing. Ambassador of Hell was cool. Jack Half-a-Prayer was cool. As you've already said, Isaac was an excellent anti-hero. Although many seem to not like it, i loved the way he described the city.
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Post by Rudgutter on Aug 31, 2003 15:16:58 GMT -5
Brilliant. It's one of those rare books I've found that manages to be both outlandishly fantasic but also realistically relevent to the reader.
The sequence with the Ambassodor of Hell was what made me sit up in my seat and think, 'Holy hell. How bloody cool is that?' And then Rudgutter mentions the Weaver, and I thought, 'Okay, whatever that is it can't be cooler than what i've just seen.' How wrong I was.
Unfortunately some of the things that interested me the most were only hinted at, such as political process in Parliament; the relationship between the different political parties; the Three Quills Party's support of zenophobic gangs; the lottery which enables you to vote; etc. I hope Mieville comes back to this in later works.
If I had a complaint, it would be that I would have liked to see a confrontation between issac and Yag, though if I was Issac I think I would have left without one too, so I shouldn't complain really.
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Post by LooseCannon on Sept 1, 2003 13:52:45 GMT -5
I loved it obviously or I wouldn't be here . I think a lot of people that don't like Mieville go in thinking it is going to be standard swords and sorcery fantasy because it has already been labelled 'fantasy' at the store. I guess what I am trying to say is you have to have an open mind going in. Anyway what really blew me away about Mieville was the guy's imagination more than anything. How the mayor had to talk to the Ambassador of Hell with that special device, the way the Weaver talked and travelled, the khepri, the mages who do the reMades, etc, etc. All of it is totally new to me so I loved it. He exceeded my expectations in the Scar with the amount of new creations introduced there.
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Mort
Wyrman
An Abyss gazing into you
Posts: 19
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Post by Mort on Sept 1, 2003 18:07:00 GMT -5
It was certainly one of the best books I picked up in 2000. I was blown away by the imagination of the city and the hints of the larger world.
I think what got me was the feeling that this was all somehow familiar yet at the same time completely alien. There were subtle (and also bludgeoning) twists on all the "normal" types in a fantasy novel. The hero is not a Conan, or even a Rincewind. The characters were all developed in a manner that appealed to me - even down to the Slake Moths and even the adventurers when they go inside the Glass House. I found it to be a dense, at times almost claustrophobis book, but that just increased the appeal of the work.
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Lemuel
Wyrman
Cactus-man? No, Pigeon-man!
Posts: 11
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Post by Lemuel on Sept 7, 2003 6:29:44 GMT -5
As i have said numerous times before, the only problem was the ending, badly written, and badly thought out:( the rest of it was brilliant though, and more than made up for the ending:D There are so many good parts it would take to long to write about them all;) but like people have said, the Weaver, Jack Half-a-prayer and the Ambassedor of Hell were all ultra-brilliant ;D
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Post by NebulousVapor on Sept 16, 2003 2:32:04 GMT -5
This was, without a doubt, one of the most original stories (along with THE SCAR) that I've read in quite a while!! I could not put either book down until I was to the last page. I truly believe that Mr. Mieville will have a long and provocative career. Very refreshing from the usual fantasy fare! Where I live (in Austin,TX I haven't met many who have read these books, but have turned a number of folks on to them.
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Post by Doul on Oct 5, 2003 14:53:39 GMT -5
crap. Sorry Fist but i just deleted your post:(. It multi-posted itself about 10 times and i didn't realise i deleted all of them. Sorry:(
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Voramorak
Wyrman
Beware the hunter's gaze...
Posts: 29
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Post by Voramorak on Oct 5, 2003 23:11:05 GMT -5
I disagree with the wide-spread thought that the ending was "lazy". What else was there to do? I honestly cried at the fact that Isaac would never be able to look at his Lin the same way, that she only truly existed in memories anymore. Yagherak finally realized that he wasn't the only person with problems, that New Crobuzon was built off of the hopeless dreams of others, countless wishes to fly. Life had to go on, unchanged by a plague of nightmares, and the problem had to be pushed out, one way or another. So...Isaac moves on, taking care of the woman he so hopelessly loves. Yagherak finds solace in dirt, no longer a creature of the air or lack of it, but a creature of the city. In the end, it isn't the people who win but New Crobuzon, this living, breathing, pissing thing that writhes so miserably in it's power over the germs inside of it. Oddly beautiful in a way.
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Post by rockhound on Oct 6, 2003 0:21:13 GMT -5
WRT The ending.
I came out of the book wishing Yag got what Lin got. I found myself truely hating him.
I never thought my opinion of a character could change so quickly.
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Voramorak
Wyrman
Beware the hunter's gaze...
Posts: 29
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Post by Voramorak on Oct 6, 2003 15:17:53 GMT -5
Well, I dunno if I came out hating Yag. Much like Isaac, it was a shock, something completely unexpected from the stoic (if rather whiney) garuda. It brought a human sense to him, for the longest time I had this wierd, abstract idea of what choice theft could be, but once I realized it, it made perfect sense.
He took her choice, so they took the one choice all Garuda have from him: Flight.
Oddly poetic, and truly fitting to the nature of the book. Yagherak went from selfish loner to commanding hero, and in the end was ultimately alone because he refused to right what he made wrong. He kept running, like he did from his people, like he did from his crime. I dont hate him, I respect him now as a man, not a strange bird creature.
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Post by rockhound on Oct 6, 2003 18:25:04 GMT -5
Warning: This post is rather serious in nature.
Vorm,
For the duration of the book, I was liking Yag. Towards his comrades, he acted with honour, and was a good friend to them.
When his true crime was revieled, my opinion of him did a 180.
Back in University, I had a friend who worked in the Rape Crises Centre. She was also involved in the take back the night marches and other events, like "safewalk."
Ask someone from there to tell you what it's like, and see if you can hold an ounce of respect for Yag after that.
No matter how much one euphamises the term, and makes it sound "pretty," it was rape. Plain and simple, and short of homicide, it is the worst crime one human can do to another.
That is why I hate Yag.
edited to add
It is not my intention to start a long discussion. This is all I have to say and will say on the matter.
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Voramorak
Wyrman
Beware the hunter's gaze...
Posts: 29
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Post by Voramorak on Oct 6, 2003 20:20:44 GMT -5
Rockhound--
I understand rape, freind. My own mother has been raped twice in her life. My eldest sister is a victim as well. So...the importance of rape as a horrible crime is not lost on me. But...it's a book. However well written...it's still a book.
I don't hate Yag, because like some rapists, he's turned his expierience around, tried to do something good, despite his crime. People make mistakes, and in the end of the book we see more than anything Yag is a person. So, no, I don't think Yag is a good character, but i'm not entirely driven to hate him. There's a huge difference between an isolated crime and a repeat incident. Not to say that rape is okay in any way (because I get the feeling you think i'm excusing his fictional actions,) but Yagherak is deep down a human, and he feels he's paid for his crime, an isolated incident, and no matter how bad the crime, I respect him as a human being, a creature remoreseful for their actions. You were never inside of his head in the time he spent repenting for his crimes. So dont pretend that he has never paid for his crime. Wingless and now without honor, he has paid and will pay a million times over, for the rest of his life. Leave it at that, will you?
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Post by rockhound on Oct 6, 2003 23:17:37 GMT -5
Fair enough...
Is it fair to say that you were able to forgive Yag, while I was not?
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Post by rockhound on Oct 7, 2003 1:22:21 GMT -5
On to brighter skys What did I like about perdido? Well, just about everything! Firstly, if nothing else, China's works will inexorably expand one's vocabulary His discriptions of New Crobuzon were absolutely amazing. When I read, I image what I'm seeing on the page. When the book was open infront of me, I could smell the sewers as they passed through them, and feel the mothshit affecting the air. The characters were spectacular too. Issac, Lin, Derkhan, and even Yag. All of them well fleshed-out 4-dimensional characters. Weaver: He just rocked the house! Moths: Majestic, beautiful, terrifying, and evil (in an animalistic way) all in the same moment. Motley: I kept visualizing something not unlike a character I once read in an alpha flight comic. Here's a link to a cover that he's on: comicbookcovers.dyndns.org/comicsdb/covers/ALPHAFLIGHT49.JPGCouncil: I can't wait to meet him again Rudgutter: Need I Say more? The background. Even though he never goes into detail on much, one can easily tell that there's tonnes of things happening in the back story, just below the surface of almost everything that goes on in Perdido. From religions, to history of the city, it's all just barely there, almost within reach, but teasing for more... It just goes on and on.
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